Off Topic Discussion

This page is dedicated to discussion that doesn’t pertain to the subject of my articles. Should you post something I deem off-topic, I will move your comment here. If you know that your post doesn’t relate to the article, save us both some time and just post it here. I recommend that everyone read this notice before submitting any comments:

http://coreydavis.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/a-note-about-comments-on-this-blog/

The other rules that I’ve outlined still apply. If or when this page gets too long to navigate I will probably delete it and start a new one.

Corey

76 comments

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July 20, 2009 at 4:23 pm

randellcraiger

I just went over to TRUTHS new blog http://bondservant3.wordpress.com/ and I know some of what he states is untrue. Johnny NEVER has said the blood of Jesus is an non-issue. I disagree with Johnnys appraoach as do many within the Church of Christ, but TRUTH is taking this to a whole new level and one I think does not show Gods love. He puts Johnny down for acting as he does and then he does the same thing towards Johnny. If TRUTH has the right to blast Johnny and call him a cult leader, then they shouldnt say anything when Johnny attacks the denominations. I am even questioning much about this new blog too. Anyways….ttyl

July 20, 2009 at 4:30 pm

randellcraiger

btw, its me Randy. take care

July 20, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Yeah, I’ve visited the hypocrisy blog.

Such strange goings-on on the blogs it is hard to know who can be trusted. Looks like it is best to leave them alone (for me anyway). Someone ought to be ashamed of their deceptive actions.

July 20, 2009 at 7:00 pm

randellcraiger

I use to think Chris, TRUTH and others were all diff persons – not so sure now. This Paden person is not a 15 year kid ( my opinion ) I may heed your advice and not waste my time there. I have commented there some today, because I think they shouldnt be attacking Johnny and tell others that Johnny shouldnt attack them.

July 20, 2009 at 8:12 pm

It seems obvious to me that someone is pretending to be someone they aren’t. The fact that everyone keeps right on posting without trying to figure out who is who seems foolish.

I find it interesting that “Nathan” emailed people a link to the copycat blog and then disappears, and won’t return emails (or so I’m told – I discovered the new blog when the operator posted on graceconversation – and what a trainwreck that place has become).

I guess I’m not big on people being deceptive, especially when they’re pretending to care about spiritual matters. I’d rather deal with people who are willing to come right out and say who they are. This notion that Johnny Robertson is going to come crashing through their door is absurd.

July 21, 2009 at 2:08 pm

randellcraiger

Corey, I was CC’d on an email from Norm Fileds two years ago and on that email was Nathans name. I emailed Nathan and another person who also was CC’d and from there the original blog was born. As I have told you and told others too…I have always wondered if Nathan was really part of the church of Christ, pretending not to be. I heard with my own ears in service one Wed night, James Oldfiled, who also preached at Martinsville with Johnny boast before the entire congrecation about him using fake names to email denomnatinal folk and their pastors. Truth is right far as them using such tactics and things, but I think Truth has went to far with his blog.

I, too, have emailed Nathan back and didn’t get a reply. I did provide Johnny with some info that was connected with Nathan, to see if they were behind Nathans blog or if Nathan was really someone else…like Chris. Nathan emailed me more than once questioning me about IP addresses, asking me if I had his IP and ask me if I had Johnny’s and others. I thought that to be a bit odd, and he seemed concerned that I could possibly have them. Either he was trying to make me think he was connected to Johnny or he was/is.

The Paden person on Truths blog also appears to be made-up and someone is trying to write as a kid, misspelling words purposely.

I sent Truth a comment this morning telling him I will no longer take part of his sladerous blog…he also has commented over at gracecoversation under a few names and has gotten many off subject/topic, which lead to Jay having to remind folks what the site is about.

Honestly, I have no idea who Nathan is…nor this Truth person, nor WIL. I am at the point that I trust nobody if they don’t use their real name. I see no point for Nathan making up a fake name. I confronted him with this via email and he replied that he was doing underground work overseas and didn’t want to risk his family being known as Christians, seeing the place he supposedly was preaching/teaching was against Christians. And, he also said he feared Johnny would attack his family with armed video, which Johnny is known to do. I find it real strange how the blog always shut down at the same time they had their tent meetings; not sure if the person behind the blog answeringchurchofChrist did this to throw people off his trail or if he was part of the church of Christ. I think Chris Knight has the skills and know-how to pull this off and the more I look at things, the more I am leaning to him being the mastermind, but I could be wrong….hard to really say. I just wish I had not got mixed up with that site and regret many things I said there and regret many things I done to help promote that blog.

I have created a URL for me, so that my name will not be copied and used again. http://randellcraiger.wordpress.com/ I plan to use this at each blog I comment on….

Anyways, I wont say anymore about this….time for me to move past this nonsense.

Randy

July 21, 2009 at 2:35 pm

lee

write me randy
lee

July 21, 2009 at 3:11 pm

randellcraiger

Lee, I have changed my old email, but go ahead and shoot me a line at randycraiger@yahoo.com and I will give you my new addy

July 24, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Looks like there is yet another blog now. And again, the person running it is linking them to you, Randy.

How strange.

July 25, 2009 at 11:59 pm

Jeff

Some time ago, I suspected that one “Marc Taylor” (long since permabanned) was actually an alias for another from that circle. One thing I noted is that he/she/it was using an IP from the Philippines. If you’ve seen a similar IP, it’s probably them.

July 27, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Randy

Corey, I don’t follow. What blog? Truths blog? The only blog connected to me is the one I started about vegetarianism and I have not had time yet to update any post on that one. I haven’t been reading much lately, so I am lost as to what you refer to. I did read some of graceconversation this morning and noticed Jay asking the Paden person to reveal who he is…like I told you, I believe that Paden is older and misspelling words purposely and also something very odd, is how he just happened to stumble on Truths blog…how coincidental and even more so, that he supposedly is a supporter of Johnny. I find that a bit too coincidental.

Jeff, if you’re reading this, could someone get my IP and use it…meaning use it to make me look like I am connected to something I am not? I don’t know much about IP’s and such…just curious if my IP could be used “illegally” I am at the point where I just don’t trust this blogging much anymore.

My take on this is that these men hate Johnny so much that they are taking things to a whole mew level and one that is not Christian like at all. They condemn Johnny for his actions but then they create a blog solely for slamming on him. And then Paden comes aboard and is accepted without any questions as to who he is until I ask him and then he linked a bogus URL to his name.

The whole mystery around the original blog answeringchurchofchrist now has me asking myself even more questions. As you know, I questioned that site from day one, even telling Nathan ( whoever he is ) that I suspected him to be with Johnny…but now I just don’t know…maybe I was taken for a ride from day one. I think I will watch my words very carefully from now on and also watch what blogs I visit.

July 27, 2009 at 12:16 pm

Randy

Corey, please send me the link to the blog you refer

July 27, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Jeff,

I’m almost certain that Norm Fields began a debate with Marc Taylor from the Philippines on his website a while back. There was even a picture of Marc. The debate fell apart when Marc accused Norm of not putting up his email or something silly like that. I can’t be certain it was the same person since Norm has taken it off his site, but I’m pretty sure it was the same name. I’m not sure if he’s connected to the others, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

Randy – the new blog is answeringchurchesofchrist.wordpress.com

July 27, 2009 at 1:36 pm

Randy

Total nonsense !!

I am really hurt by what I am reading on that blog. Some of what I read appears to be very old stuff. The one comment about me fornicating is pretty hurtful, especially knowing the real circumstances that lead to my divorce.

I also don’t see how a new blog could have over 200,000 hits, which now has me questioning the original answeringchuchofchrist blog actual hits.

July 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm

I also don’t see how a new blog could have over 200,000 hits

I’m sure the hit count, much like the individual(s) running the blog(s), is a fake.

July 27, 2009 at 3:33 pm

Jeff

Randy, it’s possible to spoof (fake) an IP. Just takes a bit of know-how and work. If they can connect you to your IP, they could imitate you.

I don’t really know who’s who or what’s what, but I do know he/she/it/they appear to have more time on their hands than I do. I doubt much investigation is worth the effort when all you’ll have at the end is the ability to put a name to one or two souls obviously in need of prayer and some counselling.

July 27, 2009 at 7:56 pm

I just saw the newest post on the “new” blog, which is titled, “Why Do Randy and I Have This Blog”, or something to that effect.

Seems that whoever is behind all of this is determined to make it look like you’re involved, Randy.

Can I ask you something, Randy? Back when I sometimes posted on the original blog of “Nathan’s”, you disappeared for a while but someone who wrote much like you do started posting under the name “Whatdoesthebiblesay”. They even had their own blog which didn’t get much traffic (or at least posts). One day that blog was taken down and not long after that you started posting again. Was that you or was that just a coincidence?

July 27, 2009 at 8:17 pm

Jeff – I found the link about Marc Taylor:

http://blog.bibleqna.org/page/2.aspx

Go to the very bottom of the page to see the first post about Marc.

July 28, 2009 at 11:29 am

That one, I will take credit for but discontinued for many reasons. I am not tied to the current blog and I know it’s a mirror of “whatdoesthebiblesay” blog, because I recall me using the same background and tag line ( I think ) I know I am being made to look connected, I see it myself. I don’t think that Marc Taylor is tied to this either. I have a pretty good idea who is behind this. If my last name is used by them on the current blog, it will come to an end…I will put it that way. Anyways, I better get to work.

July 28, 2009 at 2:03 pm

You see why it is hard for me to distinguish between who is being honest and who isn’t? The doctrines that you appeared to advocate on that blog are the same ones that Nathan, Truth and others teach.

I do appreciate your honesty in admitting that was you, but I remain confused. I have emailed with many people from the old blog at one time or another including you, “Nathan”, Johnny, Katherine, Lee, Joey and maybe some others I can’t remember. Now I don’t know who was being truthful with me.

It seems that there are people on the new blog saying that you have nothing to do with it, but of course they are just random names that could be anyone (perhaps all the same person). I can’t understand why, when discussing spiritual matters, people would want to hide in darkness and be dishonest or not completely truthful.

July 28, 2009 at 3:36 pm

I have nothing to hide, Corey. And at times I find myself questioning things and I have went back and forth on some issues. I don’t even recall what I stated on that blog, but I do know that I really struggle with many things and sometime sit on the fence on some issues. That is one reason I wont blog anymore until I at least have some understanding and be set far as what I believe.

Far as me agreeing with Nathan, Truth and others. At times, I did on some issues. I am sorry for any confusion I caused and don’t desire to post about Christianity, but still read the blogs.

I have also emailed those same people and more. I don’t know what you mean by people on the new blog saying I am not connected? Who is emailing you with this information? What would be nice would be if Nathan, Truth, WIL and Paden used their real names.

I learned some hard lessons from Johnny, if you must know. He is the one person who has turned me against much of the teachings, because of some things he has said to me and about me to others, even to Shawn Paden in Texas. Johnny even told Shawn things about my dad, and then Shawn threw that up in my face. BTW, Johnny considers you to be an apostate because you teach the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and also says Mac is not his brother because he holds this view. I am sure he hasn’t told you this in his emails.

This is where I agree with truth….Johnny’s tactics can be very damaging He even posted my dad on his TV show too with other tongue speakers and ran the clips over and over plus told people in Texas of my PAST drinking problem which I was harassed by so-called church of Christ preacher Shawn Paden. And the comment reading me fornicating was also from Johnny, which I shared with you why my wife and I divorced. Johnny even told me he was glad she cheated on me….that coming from a preacher!

The new blog is not me and at this point I really am considering leaving this all alone…the very so-called Christians are the very ones attacking me here and attacking me in Texas posting lies on Topix and emailing me too with their garbage. I can really understand truth and others being mad like they are but I will no longer play these games….Johnny loves it…you see one side of him, Corey. I know they use deceptive tactics…I heard them talk about this stuff. They do use fake emails and such…and they do chase people down with cameras and such…I even took part of this nonsense…..anyways, I think I have had enough of this…if Johnny is what being Christ like is about, I dont want it!!!!

July 28, 2009 at 4:04 pm

Randy – I have no problem with you “riding the fence” until you come to a firm decision on certain subjects, I just don’t understand why you’d want to start a blog under an anonymous name and write as if you weren’t on the fence at all. Since there are all of these copycat blogs popping up, and you’ve admitted that you’ve done something of the sort, I just don’t know what to believe. I want to believe you, though. The fact that you’d honestly answer my question here says a lot to me.

I also want to be clear that I have had limited email interaction with the individuals I listed. It isn’t like I’m in constant contact with any of those people – I’ve had far more emails with you than any other person and you know that you and I haven’t emailed a ton.

As to who thinks I’m an apostate, I couldn’t care less. I’ve tried to be clear as to why the issue of the indwelling doesn’t really change anything as long as you don’t believe that it manifests itself in a miraculous way, and most people are able to accept that. There is a good and (mostly) respectful discussion on this subject at the preachersfiles.com forums that you ought to read. If someone wants to draw lines of fellowship over it, then that is their choice.

I will say that I think it is wrong for people to try and use your past against you when you aren’t attacking them – just looking for answers. I know it is difficult, but there comes a point where we have to get past individuals and personalities and just go to the word. Do your best. Seek and be assured that you will find. You’re always welcome to post here and have good discussions and you can be assured that the personal attacks and petty arguing won’t be tolerated.

July 28, 2009 at 4:25 pm

Thanks, Corey.

BTW, Nathan knew it was me posting on that other blog. I realize that makes me look like I am behind others and obviously someone else knows this too. I am working to uncover some of this and when my last name is used, that will get me what I need. I also have my IS people here tracking down some information. If I find out I will make it pubic. Although, Johnny and crew have used these tactics, I don’t think this is them. I use to think they were Nathan and even ask Johnny and Nathan and told you this too. I really have narrowed much of this down to one individual who is pretty skilled in this area and hopefully will find out so I can clear my name from this nonsense. Anyway, I am headed to get some lunch. ttyl

July 28, 2009 at 4:58 pm

Jeff

Corey wrote:
“I can’t understand why, when discussing spiritual matters, people would want to hide in darkness and be dishonest or not completely truthful.”

I can understand the use of aliases somewhat, given the history some have of “writing up” anyone they disagree with. The lying, not so much, of course.

Come to think of it, it’s probably a testimony to the obscurity of my site (and/or me) that I haven’t been cited as a false teacher in some publication somewhere by some writer who needs a controversy to sell papers…

July 28, 2009 at 5:22 pm

I like to think that my mostly complete lack of anonymity keeps me honest. Since I’m not hiding who I am, I have to be very careful what I write here.

One thing seems clear – someone is going to mark you as a false teacher/write you up/attack you if you’re willing to put your thoughts out there.

On that note, I listened to some lectureships online and one of the speakers spent quite some time talking about the original acoc blog of Nathan’s. That particular group/congregation is all about calling people out, so I wouldn’t be surprised to hear something from this blog discussed on one of their future lectureships.

July 28, 2009 at 6:48 pm

Oh, Randy, this is great…

I visited the new blog and there is a post from “paden”, but the comment was exactly like the stuff “Truth” always posts. In fact, “Truth” clearly forgot which name he was posting under because when you clicked on the name “paden” it was linked to Truth’s blog! I called him on it and my comment was quickly deleted!

So it looks like “paden” is probably “Truth”, which goes to show how dishonest he is. Looks like it is difficult keeping up with all of the fake names and lies.

July 28, 2009 at 7:03 pm

Update: knowing that he has been exposed as a liar he has deleted all of the comments. So, if you were wondering who was saying hurtful things about you on the new blog, now you know.

July 28, 2009 at 7:47 pm

Hey

Dude, this is so crazy. Truth just posted something on his other blog bonservant3 – is that directed to you or me…both perhaps?

I am just gonna ignore it and move on…

July 28, 2009 at 8:05 pm

Nothing like trying to deflect the blame onto someone else! All that post does is confirm what I just told you. I would love for “Truth” to show me one time I have been deceptive or dishonest on the blogs.

To paraphrase Lee…I smell smoke. Maybe “Truth” needs to check his pants!

July 29, 2009 at 12:31 am

bondservant3

corey,

Why didn’t you keep the link to your claim and show it? Because you know it isn’t true, it’s something you fabricated to try to make us look dishonest like you guys are.

July 29, 2009 at 12:50 pm

And what good would it do to link to it when you deleted all the comments? In fact, you deleted most of the posts. Do you not fear God, lying like you do?

You are done here. Don’t post here again, under any of your aliases.

July 29, 2009 at 5:30 pm

lee

credit taken
lee

July 29, 2009 at 5:40 pm

credit taken

Huh? That’s a cryptic comment even for you, Lee.

July 30, 2009 at 3:36 am

lee

well you did quote me……
lee

July 30, 2009 at 1:19 pm

Hey, I gave you the credit!

July 31, 2009 at 3:31 am

lee

that was my encrypted acknowledgment of said credit given.
ha…..
lee

August 3, 2009 at 8:07 pm

Randy

Just visited grace conversation blog and noticed paden has started his own blog and oddly enough resembles truths blog….crazy stuff. I guess paden wants to make sure we don’t confuse him with truth, right Chris Knight?

August 5, 2009 at 3:36 pm

There are now at least 6 blogs that, if not operated by the same individuals, are at least directed toward the same individual (JR). And now there is “paden’s” blog as you mentioned.

What is the point exactly?

August 5, 2009 at 5:23 pm

Randy

I honestly don’t know what good they would be, but do understand why JR would be a target. JR does this stuff here, so that could be a good reason to start them. I disagree with Truth calling JR a cult leder and such, but JR does this stuff too and more. You would really have to have lived here the past 10 years to understand.

I haven’t seen 6 new blogs. I will look again when I can.

August 5, 2009 at 6:35 pm

1. Nathan’s
2. Copycat of the original that says “churches”…which is obviously “Truth’s”
3. Copycat of the original that has “the” in the title
4. Truth’s bondservant3 blog
5. WIL’s apparently abandoned blog
6. a new one called “blaze of glory”

Looks like it would be smarter to consolidate their hatred into one blog, but I guess they prefer to spread the wealth.

August 6, 2009 at 12:51 am

lee

be fair cory if you are saying these are haters
then also mention the less than honorable johnny.
although well trained in the human response to his goading,
i see him as not representing the one true god but some other
entity altogether. he spreads no gospel….only his devide and conquer
message. a sad man really.
lee

August 6, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Lee, you’ve been more than clear as to how you feel about Johnny, and I want to be clear that we’re not going to have discussions about Johnny here.

However, since you are willing to call Johnny out are you not willing to also speak out against the dishonesty that is being shown by others? That was one of the big reasons I stopped posting on Nathan’s blog – as long as a person was against Johnny they were treated as if they were fine, no matter what they said or did. It was pathetic “the-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend”.

August 6, 2009 at 1:18 pm

lee

if someone is wrong they are wrong…….no excuses.
whoever they are or who they say they represent.
i wont defend a lie. clear enough.
but why are you opposed to the mentioning of a man that i
watch here in the va nc area lambaste good people who have done
nothing to him. weather or not you believe anyone outside the coc
is a true christian, his methods are not scriptural.
he is like it or not the only coc visible in this area.
he is no example of christ and is at best a zelot of the worst sort of
religion. this is why he is the only one talked about, he puts his self
in the spotlight. i was not looking for him.
corey, i am a reasonable man and i know that it is easy to get carried
away in these discussions. but johnny robertson should give your entire
group pause. truth is truth.
will you agree with me?
lee

August 6, 2009 at 1:43 pm

Lee – here is the problem – I can’t talk about something I can’t see. People I don’t know (and most of whom I clearly can’t trust) on the internet say, “Johnny says this” or “Johnny said that”. Well, I don’t know if that is true because I’m hundreds of miles away and I haven’t seen or heard it. If I

1. Haven’t witnessed something or
2. Can’t trust the source

then I’m just not going to speak on it. I have, however, seen with my own eyes how some of these other individuals behave through their writings. That I can speak on. The only things I can speak on as to Johnny are the few videos that he has online, the dvds he sent me and the few, brief emails that I exchanged with the man – nothing more.

Just like you said to me, I would think that it should give you pause to know that you’re appearing to stand side-by-side with profane and dishonest individuals by agreeing with their comments about Johnny, yet not acknowledging the wicked things they’re doing/saying.

August 6, 2009 at 5:24 pm

lee

you say i appear to stand….. if that is what you take from my comments to you over this past year then that is your take on me and as i just told you
i wont defend lies or liars. but here is the rub ,you always to me at least
seem to look over any real points concerning an individual who has made himself to be THE

August 6, 2009 at 5:27 pm

lee

authority on Christianity in this area. i have not lied about anything.
is that good enough? maybe not.but i stand behind any statement i have made about the man. he dosent serve god peroid.
lee

August 6, 2009 at 5:47 pm

bondservant3

You’ve been told not to post here again. Do it again and I’ll have to ban your IP address which can cause trouble for you posting elsewhere. No more warnings – Corey

August 7, 2009 at 6:48 pm

6. a new one called “blaze of glory”

Randy, I’ve got to say that the one above sure sounds a lot like you now that I’m reading the posts there and on “Paden’s” blog.

August 9, 2009 at 4:06 am

walkinginlove

corey my abandoned blog is simply a time issue, i have a major it install that limits my time to blog.

As for hating you or Johnny or anyone I don’t period end of sentence, I may totally disagree with your focus on the scriptures that appears to remove the mercy element from them but I don’t hate you simply because as a fellow slave I can not hold a debt towards anyone per the Lord’s instructions.

Are we clear on my position?

And I will ask even though it may get me banned, why will you not discuss Johnny Robertson? He is your brother after all and you should be willing to defend him or correct him in any case should you not?

August 10, 2009 at 1:59 pm

corey my abandoned blog is simply a time issue

I was simply stating the facts – that you haven’t blogged in some time – not attacking you in any way.

Are we clear on my position?

I will take what you say at face value, although it is difficult to do so when someone hides their identity. I know it is a common practice on the internet, but we are discussing spiritual matters here. I just prefer to be out in the light and I can only completely trust those that are likewise willing to do so.

And I will ask even though it may get me banned, why will you not discuss Johnny Robertson? He is your brother after all and you should be willing to defend him or correct him in any case should you not?

I’m not going to ban you for asking a simple question. The only person I’ve banned was after they proved that they were a liar who couldn’t be trusted. I will point you back to my answer to Lee in regards to Johnny. If I can’t see it or completely trust the source, I’m not going to comment on it. End of story.

On a separate note, I find it interesting that 3 of the blogs I listed have now been taken down. Wonder why that is?

August 10, 2009 at 4:23 pm

Anonymous

Perhaps because Randy Craiger was caught in his lies and thus deleted them.

August 10, 2009 at 4:33 pm

And what lies are you referring to?

August 10, 2009 at 4:41 pm

Anonymous

I see on Nathans ACOC blog Randy Craiger constantly lied pretending to be someone else to try to throw people off. He has shown to have done this sort of activity time and time again. Definitely a man not to be trusted.

August 10, 2009 at 10:20 pm

walkinginlove

Corey you have to understand my situation, my wife was once stalked before we had met and because of the tactics the local people use that I consider stalking and there confrontational attacks on other Churches I remain hidden until they find their way to the body of believers I fellowship with.

I do this to protect them from the wrath that will be poored out and the stalking they will do to me personally. I would rather not have to do this but because of the situation I see no alternative short of no tresspass orders etc.

Again you can accept what I say as the truth of why I do not reveal who I am or you can assume that this is all smoke and mirrors, the Lord knows the truth in the matter and I leave it to the Holy Spirit to tell you if I speak honestly or falsely.

August 11, 2009 at 12:55 pm

I don’t want this to sound rude, but, do you think you might be over-estimating how significant you are to them? I mean Chris Knight is out there talking about them on his blog, confronting them on video, etc. and it appears that even by Chris’ own account all they do is talk about him. They don’t stalk him.

You’ve said that you’re not a “pastor”/preacher or anything like that, so why is it you think you’re worth going after? Regardless, you can hide your identity if you choose, but I think you see the situation as dire when it is nothing of the sort.

I would like to believe that you aren’t part of the deceptive group, or individual, who is making all of the blogs and posting as people that you aren’t, but there really is no good way for me to know without personally knowing you. If you can post in a respectful way and mind the rules of this blog, you’ll be allowed to take part in discussions here. I can at least reasonably know from your IP address that you aren’t the person that I just had to ban.

August 11, 2009 at 7:44 pm

walkinginlove

I protect my family and friends from actions I consider to be in fact lawless. I have read about the pastors wife being stalked in a walmart parking lot, I have watched as Mark M. went door to door pretending to be inviting people to church while secretly recording them for broadcast to entrap them into a game of “your church is not required for salvation”

I have watched Micah R. go into a post office trying to trap the employees by pretending to what to place tracks in the location while fully aware that it was illegal to do so, I have watched and heard of the telephone recordings that were done without the knowledge of those being recorded and consider them all a violation to privacy.

Christians sneaking around to provoke a fight, now how is that scpritual? I would not be here had two of Johnny’s follows not attempted to convince me that the only way to be saved was to be baptized by a CoC preacher and attend a CoC church, neither of those requirments are in the Bible, so the fight came to me, and frankly I thought they would have hit the church I attend by now but they have not.

When it happens I will be out of stealth and and I will be happy to take the heat but until then I protect those I love from this lawless behavior, not because I hate Johnny or his followers, but because they simply are another form of false teachers who have convinced themselves they hold the keys to the kingdom that came directly from the Apostles when clearly they do not teach the complete doctrine that the apostles taught.

Would you care to comment on Ezra 10’s use in the New Testament to force people in second marriages to divorce and return to a previous partner or go to hell? Jesus had a perfect opportunity to tell the woman at the well she needed to return to her first husband but he did not, and there are no examples of Ezra 10 being used by the Apostles yet the hardline CoC teach that very thing! Why because it was the only “answer” they could come up with in dealing with marriage. Never mind there are no examples of it in the “pattern”.

I have a good friend who is part of the CoC but not part of the hardline who is very dear to me, he allows me to call him brother and we treat each other with respect and love each other as the Bible tells us to do.

So I am not after you Corey or the CoC in general but I am standing as best I can against what I consider lawlessness, what I don’t understand is the blank check that Johnny seems to get from the non-hardline CoC and why they do not stand against this false teaching and open lying by them. If I were a member of a Church and this was going on we would be meeting in private to settle this and if not I would exorcise Matthew 18 down to the last detail to try and regain them back to the right course.

But I am not their brother and Johnny has stated clearly that he is out to destroy every other church in the local area who will not submit to his teaching.

This is happening on your watch Corey, you can decide to ignore it but you will be held accountable for it, just like the priest who walked past the dying man!

August 11, 2009 at 7:52 pm

walkinginlove

http://www.roysecitycoc.org/?pg=divorce_remarriage

Since there is a credibility issue between us the above is a link to Heath’s home church who is a big supporter of Johnny, they teach the same thing and at the bottom of the page you will find a reference to Ezra 10 so that you know what I say is true.

As for Mark and Micah I have them both recorded on tape to prove what I saw is true, if you want I will send you a copy of the tape.

August 12, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Ugh…I typed out a response and it didn’t post. Here goes again:

This is happening on your watch Corey, you can decide to ignore it but you will be held accountable for it, just like the priest who walked past the dying man!

I don’t accept this. That priest saw something with his own eyes. I am hardly responsible for the actions of my brethren in Virginia, Texas, Zimbabwe, or any other place. I am tired of people trying to pull me into a fight that isn’t mine. I have already done that, and after examining my words, found that I spoke out of turn and had to apologize to my brother. I am not going to do that again. Now,

Would you care to comment on Ezra 10’s use in the New Testament to force people in second marriages to divorce and return to a previous partner or go to hell?

The OT was written “for our learning” was it not? People today try to say that God would never ask someone to break up a family in order to be reconciled to Him. Ezra 10 shows that He would. The individuals and circumstances are not the same. I acknowledge that. It is simply an example that we can look to, to show that sometimes true repentance requires heartbreak.

Jesus had a perfect opportunity to tell the woman at the well she needed to return to her first husband but he did not

You are assuming something that simply isn’t there – you assume that her previous husbands were still living. All that is clear is that she was with a man (living like a husband & wife – “the one you now have”; verse 18). She acknowledged that the man she was currently with wasn’t truly her husband and Jesus rebuked that relationship. Those are the facts.

Is it not possible that she had lost 5 husbands to death, and because that soured her to marriage, she simply decided to live with a man without marrying him? I think it is likely, but I wouldn’t bind it upon you. Likewise, you can’t prove in any fashion that any of her previous husbands were still living – nor can you prove that she left them (if they were alive) for any reason other than fornication. The Samaritans actually held marriage in much higher regard than the Jews did according to some reading I’ve done.

I will say this, I have watched Johnny’s lesson online about MDR, and as far as I can remember, I agreed 100% with what he taught. Remember the response given to Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 19:

“If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.”

They realized that what He taught was so difficult to accept in their easy-divorce society (much like ours) that it was perhaps best to never marry! Just because our society/government recognizes a “marriage” doesn’t mean that God honors it. God isn’t asking people in 2nd “marriages” to come out of lawful relationships, but to come out of unlawful relationships that He doesn’t recognize (see Mark 6:17-18 as an example of a legally recognized “marriage” that wasn’t lawful in God’s eyes).

August 12, 2009 at 3:05 pm

lee

I have already done that, and after examining my words, found that I spoke out of turn and had to apologize to my brother. I am not going to do that again.

if you are claiming johnny as your brother in this statement ,
then shame on you.
he is not mine. and i dont mean just because the coc say he isnt.
the bible standard proves hes not. he is doing someones work though……
lee

August 13, 2009 at 12:58 am

Randy Craiger

Guys, I have been on vacation ( still am ) and dont have time for these stupid silly games. I havent deleted anything. I still have my blog up, which, btw, dont even have time for that. Matter of fact havent even been on here in some time. I am finished with you all. I have better things to do. Say what you wish, I dont care anymore!!!!!! I have been out of State since my last post here and come back to Va Friday. You guys keep fighting like kids —- I am finished!!! Later!!!!!!!

August 13, 2009 at 1:03 am

Randy Craiger

I love how my name is put out like this when I am nowhere near you guys, nor keeping up with yalls silly talks. I just logged on here at my condo just now for the first time in a while and what do I see……ME put out on the frying pan. All of you guys have yalls church and stuff….I am finished!!! You all are backstabbers and liars!! I have my own problems without your silly games. The last person I emailed was WIL. From that point till now, I have been in Tenn…..yall have fun!!!!!!!!!!

August 13, 2009 at 1:34 pm

walkinginlove

Corey only those who are brothers can speak into the life on JR and company, I can not because I am not considered a brother, if I could I would.

You may call it being dragged into a fight but if this lawlessness continues then any truth the Church of Christ has to speak into others lives will be drowned out by the lawless actions of a few.

So you can run away but know that reaching the lost and correcting false teaching will only become harder as people see these actions and harden their hearts.

August 13, 2009 at 1:46 pm

Randy – all I was doing was pointing out that there was a blog that seemed to sound like you. It is clear that some people are posting as people that they aren’t, and I thought you should know that.

The comments attacking you from “anonymous” are from “Truth” a.k.a. “bondservant3″. I have now banned his IP address since he won’t stop posting regardless of the number of warnings.

August 17, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Randy

Corey, just curious how you would reply to these questions:

Do you agree that the standard by which we stay saved is the same standard by which we were first saved? ( Rom. 15..7 ) — then maybe we should continually accept one another, in the same way Christ accepted us [when we were first saved], in order to bring praise to God.

1. Did Christ accpet you knowing it all – knowing doctrine perfectly?

2. At what point did you know doctrine perfectly?

3. Were you saved up until the point of knowing ALL doctrine perfectly?

4. Do all learn and understand doctrine at the same time?

5. Are the unlearned or those who lack your understanding in the church of Christ your brothers?

6. Will you accpet them as Christ accepted you?

7. Rom. ( 15:5-6 ) What is “the spirit of unity” and is it a gift of God?

-Randy

August 17, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Randy

If Jeff or Scott is reading, I would like their input as well.

August 17, 2009 at 7:57 pm

Do you agree that the standard by which we stay saved is the same standard by which we were first saved? ( Rom. 15..7 )

Yes and no. Yes in that it is only through Jesus who made salvation initially possible and makes it possible to remain in good standing before God. No in that those things required to enter the kingdom (belief, repentance, confession & baptism) are not the same as those required to remain saved (such as faithful living – Rev. 2:10).

1. Did Christ accpet you knowing it all – knowing doctrine perfectly?

No, I did not know doctrine perfectly, nor do I see any scriptures requiring perfect knowledge for spiritual children. All I see that is essential to know are the requirements for initial entrance into the kingdom.

2. At what point did you know doctrine perfectly?

I’ll let you know when I get there. That does not relieve me of my duty to grow & mature. I have not achieved “perfection” (complete maturity), but I am commanded to strive toward it (Hebrews 6:1).

3. Were you saved up until the point of knowing ALL doctrine perfectly?

Yes.

4. Do all learn and understand doctrine at the same time?

No. Some are always “learning” but never come to a knowledge of the truth (2 Timothy 3:7). While some may take longer to learn that others, we must not be like those mentioned in 2 Timothy 3:7.

5. Are the unlearned or those who lack your understanding in the church of Christ your brothers?

The congregation of which I am a part is full of individuals on different levels of scriptural knowledge. They are my brothers & sisters and so is anyone who has done the things God asked of them, for the reasons He stated. While I may choose for whatever reason not to associate with some brethren, I am in fellowship with all who are in fellowship with the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. This is not a matter of choice, but a matter of fact.

6. Will you accpet them as Christ accepted you?

Yes, I will accept them in their varying levels of maturity as God has accepted me – knowing that maturity is a process that takes time, but standing firm in the fact that it is always our goal.

7. Rom. ( 15:5-6 ) What is “the spirit of unity” and is it a gift of God?

I would say that the spirit of unity is summed up in Jesus’ prayer in John 17:20-21. We are to be of the same mind as the Father & Son are of the same mind. I see it as a gift of God as all of the fruits of the Spirit are gifts of God – as we grow in knowledge of His word & will, we will pursue that unity because we have His plan to achieve it. In verse 18 Paul said:

18For I will not presume to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me, resulting in the obedience of the Gentiles by word and deed,

Paul’s preaching of the gospel resulted in obedience. As we are obedient to the word we will be able to enjoy the gifts given through it – only one of which is unity.

August 17, 2009 at 8:24 pm

Randy

Agreed.

Sure you aren’t a progressive…just kidding. Really though, that’s not the answers we would get here, and that’s why you see some frustration from Lee, WIL and others. I’m sure the first question could be debated a bit more, perhaps I should have worded it differently, but really I agree with everything you said. If others had that attitude, maybe the message preached hear would be better received. Although, I think the part regarding baptism would be the dividing line. Thanks

August 17, 2009 at 8:34 pm

Randy,

On a somewhat related note, you might like to go here:

http://forum.preachersfiles.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1706&start=10

and listen to the 2nd presentation, “Honor Fellowship”, by Dick Sztanyo. It is a good way of thinking about who we are and aren’t in fellowship with.

August 27, 2009 at 4:20 pm

Randy Craiger

I sent two links to “truths” blog yesterday from Church of Christ sites, that clearly refuted “the sinners prayer” and also one that addressed the Gentiles being forgiven in Acts. My links were deleted — guess he will say they “could have” had a virus. Strange he had no problem posting the links from Royce. I am just going to read your blog and handful of others and not waste anymore of my time there. I was hoping he would have been fair, but that was just wishful thinking on my part.

August 27, 2009 at 4:31 pm

Luke 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

There comes a point where you’ve got to heed the advice above.

August 27, 2009 at 8:26 pm

Randy Craiger

Truth said on his blog > “Randy gave links that had Johnny Robertson’s name on them which were not considered to be safe links and they were not posted.”

Randy said > Corey, I know you don’t want your blog used this way, but the statement above made by ‘truth’ is a flat out lie. The links I provided were not connected to Johnny at all!

Here are the links I sent TRUTH, which are not connected to Johnny.

http://www.netbiblestudy.net/bulletin/new_page_88.htm

http://www.lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVstudies/Cornelius/Spirit.htm

Corey, I wont keep using your blog this way, I just wanted the truth out, which is not what TRUTHS blog is about. The above links are the very ones he refused to show and now he is claiming these were connected to Johnny. My only comment regarding Johnny was that he had a TV show on about the same subject. I am tired of TRUTHS lies and it amazes me to see Lee and others there when he has AGAIN demonstrated how he holds to truth.

Anyways, I am sorry to post this on here, but I know if I went there, he would twist it, cut it or delete it.

Have a nice weekend, I am off three days

August 27, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Randy

Truth must have seen my comment here–looks like he removed the comment now, after I exposed him for lying AGAIN

August 28, 2009 at 3:28 am

lee

sorry for the disappointment
lee

August 28, 2009 at 1:45 pm

Randy

Im not disappointed, Lee. If “Truth” really wants to discuss things, he will never get that blog off the ground by making rules that apply to whom he chooses. He sure didn’t hesitate to post Royce links. He stated yesterday that I had links connected to Johnny, which was not true and after I came here and posted it, he removed his comment. Him saying Johnny might attack his PC with a virus is silly and down right stupid. Johnny wouldn’t do that. As long as he makes rules that he bends for those he agrees with, I will not be going back to his blog. Anyways, I need to stop using Coreys blog like this. You guys have fun over on truths blog and like I told truth – good luck finding others willing to discuss things there

October 5, 2009 at 8:13 pm

Randy

Something interesting happened yesterday I would like to ask your opinion. I have Native Indians on my dad and moms side, so I attend Pow-Wows when I can. Yesterday, I attended one with my ex-wife and three kids. During their opening prayer to “Creator and mother Earth” they ask all to stand and remove their hats. I didn’t feel right about the prayer being to ‘Creator and mother earth’, so I left my hat on. They ask me several times to remove my hat, before finally I just sat down too, which must have added to the insult. I could tell I had offended many of the Natives and could see on-lookers pointing at me. The lady next to my ex-wife ask her if I felt singled out. Well they let things proceed for a bit, then another Indian stopped the Pow-Wow because he said he had something say. Well, long story short, he gave a big speech about respect and honor and was pretty much was attempting to lay a guilt trip on me. They were speaking of visions and such that they have and once during a flute solo about the Eagle, the flute player stopped to show everyone how her song called the Eagle to Fly overhead, so I looked up….no Eagle at all, just a crow hovering around because of the food being cooked, she then referred to it a Hawk…..but anyways, was I out of line in your opinion? Should I have respected them by respecting their prayer? Should I have removed my hat and stood with everyone? If so, how could I not treat Muslims and others with the same respect?

October 5, 2009 at 8:32 pm

I don’t know about that one, Randy.

Part of me thinks that if you don’t want to run into those situations, it would probably be best to not attend in the first place. If they are advocating false gods, then I would follow the admonition to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11). I don’t know if you were surprised or not. If you know it is going to happen, don’t put yourself in the situation.

Would simply taking off your hat to show respect, while not joining in their prayer have been better? I know that many would take that route, but I also think that by refusing to do so, you did reprove those unfruitful works of darkness in a sense. I think of Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach & Abednego, and I’m quite sure they would have kept their hats on!

I think what you did was right, but in the future, I would totally avoid such situations. That’s my take on it. Maybe someone else has something of value to share?